tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post2326323870184794747..comments2024-02-19T04:50:58.170-08:00Comments on Shuck and Jive: Another Thought on PrayerJohn Shuckhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00798753206614838161noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-63133342129768981292008-01-08T07:06:00.000-08:002008-01-08T07:06:00.000-08:00Lisa, here are some to get you started:Luke 8.1-3 ...Lisa, here are some to get you started:<BR/><BR/>Luke 8.1-3 (Mary Magdalene, Joanna and Susanna)<BR/><BR/>John 4.39-42 (woman at the well tells her fellow Samaritans about Jesus being Savior of the world)<BR/><BR/>Romans 16.1 (Phoebe, a deacon of the church at Cenchreae)<BR/><BR/>Romans 16.3, 1 Cor 16.19 (Prisca, explicitly named as a leader of a house church)<BR/><BR/>Colossians 4.15 (Nympha, another leader of a house church)<BR/><BR/>Romans 16.6 (Mary)<BR/><BR/>Romans 16.7 (Junia)<BR/><BR/>Romans 16.12 (Persis)<BR/><BR/>Romans 16.15 (Julia and Nereus' sister)<BR/><BR/>Philemon 2 (Apphia)Flycandlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08599392875619723740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-21763614421410966842008-01-08T03:43:00.000-08:002008-01-08T03:43:00.000-08:00This is lovely- really beautiful. Thank you. And v...This is lovely- really beautiful. Thank you. And very thought provoking.jqpfraFranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07181529277715646835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-48404771106194932752008-01-07T22:49:00.000-08:002008-01-07T22:49:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Mystical Seekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828225180668865911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-66371438517813564012008-01-07T21:23:00.001-08:002008-01-07T21:23:00.001-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00802983318768021197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-8169996199564560042008-01-07T21:23:00.000-08:002008-01-07T21:23:00.000-08:00Lisa G. said... "How do you decide what's true and...Lisa G. said... "How do you decide what's true and what's not? What is your source of ultimate truth?<BR/><BR/>The Pharisees were confident they had the Torah, which they believed was delivered by Moses, and therefore, in their biblio-idolatry they rejected the truth when it was being lived and taught in front of their very eyes, saying "but as for this man Jesus, we know not whence he is"; today, Christians practice their own form of biblio-idolatry; they now claim the Old Testament (twisted and interpreted according to their interpretation) and the New Testament are the Word of God and like those who followed the religion of authority before them, the Pharisees, when they say, "but as for this new truth (evolution, other religious traditions, etc.), we know not when it comes"; and then ask "What is your source of ultimate truth?", when in reality there is no such thing as ultimate truth in human experience, only living truth, and Jesus told us this was the living truth revealed by the Spirit of Truth to the hearts and minds of those who love the truth and will follow it wherever it leads.<BR/><BR/>"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you." (John 16:12-15)<BR/><BR/>Those who follow the religions of authority seek to imprison truth in a creed, a dogma, a belief; Jesus released the Spirit of Truth to all those of sincere heart to who do what he teachings; love God with all our heart, all soul, and all our strength, and love our neighbor as oneself. And if we dare, to love even our enemies with such a love, and then we truly can call ourselves his disciples.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00802983318768021197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-32607855705211295782008-01-07T20:52:00.000-08:002008-01-07T20:52:00.000-08:00John,This whole of idea of arrogantly praying some...John,<BR/><BR/>This whole of idea of arrogantly praying some to come around to recognizing one’s so-called theological right beliefs reminds me of the parable Jesus offered to illustrate just such misuse of prayer:<BR/><BR/>“Two men who went into the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed to himself: `O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of men, extortioners, unlearned, unjust, adulterers, or even like this publican. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.' But the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift his eyes to heaven but smote his breast, saying, `God be merciful to me a sinner.' I tell you that the publican went home with God's approval rather than the Pharisee, for every one who exalts himself shall be humbled, but he who humbles himself shall be exalted." (Luke 18:9-14)<BR/><BR/>This is an example of humans wanting to pretend to be the arbiters of salvation on their own arrogant theological terms. The Father gives salvation as a free gift to all who have the faith to recognize and receive their sonship and daughtership in the family of God with a wholehearted and sincere desire to do the Father’s will. We don’t earn our way into salvation by either works or right theological believes (these blind narrow minded conservative evangelicals understand the first “works” part, but fail to grasp they are like the Pharisees in the “beliefs” category). Works of self-righteousness cannot buy the favor of God, and much praying in public for others will not atone for lack of living faith in the heart or the fruits of the spirit in their lives. We may deceive by our pretentious words or deeds, but God looks into our souls.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00802983318768021197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-83869383383848644392008-01-07T18:42:00.000-08:002008-01-07T18:42:00.000-08:00Mystical Seeker,How do you decide what's true and ...Mystical Seeker,<BR/><BR/>How do you decide what's true and what's not? What is your source of ultimate truth?<BR/><BR/>LisaLisa G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01188770954304845926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-13337852222710761442008-01-07T18:38:00.000-08:002008-01-07T18:38:00.000-08:00Lisa G., thanks for passing along an irrelevant Bi...Lisa G., thanks for passing along an irrelevant Bible quote. As if I thought that just because the Bible says something, then it must be true.Mystical Seekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828225180668865911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-20585329066412004572008-01-07T17:39:00.000-08:002008-01-07T17:39:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.OneSmallStephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08189124855157679020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-68655306430849142012008-01-07T16:58:00.000-08:002008-01-07T16:58:00.000-08:00one-That is simply not true. Hermeneutics is an ar...one-<BR/>That is simply not true. Hermeneutics is an art and a science. It is an art in that the more one practices it the better one becomes and a science in that there are rules that one must follow when practicing it. Choosing to ignore this does nothing but make one wrong.Alanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01152987444260369287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-78944879848567588222008-01-07T16:50:00.000-08:002008-01-07T16:50:00.000-08:00**I challenge you to put the verses in context and...**I challenge you to put the verses in context and find a different meaning than what was intended by the author. **<BR/><BR/>And if the author meant that the Earth was literally flat? As it is, Judaism would say that Christianity takes the Tanakh extremely out of context, or just flat-out interprets wrong. Or what if Paul really meant that the second coming was to occur in his lifetime? <BR/><BR/>No one person correctly knows how to interpret the Bible verses. We do the best we can, but it's ultimately left up to our subjective viewpoints, and experiences.OneSmallStephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08189124855157679020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-90488894655247388472008-01-07T16:30:00.000-08:002008-01-07T16:30:00.000-08:00tn420-Have you visited my blog? I challenge you to...tn420-<BR/>Have you visited my blog? I challenge you to put the verses in context and find a different meaning than what was intended by the author. That's right I said it, it does not matter one whit what the text means to you, it matters what was intended by the author, there is a meaning in the text.Alanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01152987444260369287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-39996669965857592882008-01-07T16:21:00.000-08:002008-01-07T16:21:00.000-08:00Flycandler,Where in scripture does it say that wom...Flycandler,<BR/><BR/>Where in scripture does it say that women were ministers?<BR/><BR/>LisaLisa G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01188770954304845926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-64373129954414030602008-01-07T16:16:00.000-08:002008-01-07T16:16:00.000-08:00Sigh:)Prayer is a wonderful thing. It is just one ...<I>Sigh</I><BR/><BR/>:)<BR/><BR/>Prayer is a wonderful thing. It is just one method by which we achieve inner peace. I have had prayers answered, and I am smart enough to know the difference between answered prayer and coincidence.<BR/><BR/>Your point is clear and well received, John. Of course, I don't pray for these kooky fundi snake handlers because they're wrong. I pray for them because they're blind. The blindness comes before confusion. Thus, it prevents education and open mindedness and creates a disdain for logic and fact. Jesus was pure logic, the single smartest man that ever existed. To look at His teachings with anything other than logic is to waste His words and replace them with one's own.<BR/>That's why they cherry-pick verses the way Alan does. Ignoring context allows for the cherry-picker to apply their own, personal ideology and imagine themselves in Jesus' seat and equal or superior to Him.<BR/>It's a personal power trip. Nothing more.<BR/><BR/>This is why we had the inquisitions and all the other atrocities that have been committed in the name of "God" right down to the war on Iraq. These people are just like Pat Robertson, Jim Bakker, Jerry Falwell, Joseph and Evangaline Combs...manipulators, predators, deceivers.<BR/>They're control freaks that thrive on keeping those that hear them dumbed down and easy to use.<BR/><BR/>It's annoying I know, but these Taliban types are unfortunately a fact of Christian life just as it is with Islam, Judisim, and every other religion. <BR/>Take them with the same grain of salt they take Jesus and his love with.captainkonahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04011881473365734763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-45281060316520426752008-01-07T15:40:00.001-08:002008-01-07T15:40:00.001-08:00Lisa and Alan,Welcome. I think you will have a bo...Lisa and Alan,<BR/><BR/>Welcome. I think you will have a boatload to be offended about with this blog. Enjoy!John Shuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00798753206614838161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-63662584849514770412008-01-07T15:40:00.000-08:002008-01-07T15:40:00.000-08:00Grace,I don't think I am hurt. Just annoyed. But...Grace,<BR/><BR/>I don't think I am hurt. Just annoyed. But I get over it by posting about it! <BR/><BR/>Peace,<BR/>jJohn Shuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00798753206614838161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-86176085307301933152008-01-07T15:34:00.000-08:002008-01-07T15:34:00.000-08:00So, Lisa, if we're already headed down the path of...So, Lisa, if we're already headed down the path of destruction as a denomination due simply to the fact that, like Paul and Jesus, we allow women to answer the call from God and become ministers, why are you so concerned about a PC(USA) minister in Tennessee discussing the similarities and differences between the ways that Christians, Muslims and Jews talk about the same person?<BR/><BR/>The Tanakh (Old Testament to us Protestants) does not say that Jesus is God. Does that mean that Judaism and Christianity are mutually exclusive? Since the Old Testament is part of our canon, does that mean that Christianity is mutually exclusive from itself?Flycandlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08599392875619723740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-22688798218632878722008-01-07T14:44:00.000-08:002008-01-07T14:44:00.000-08:00John,I'm truly sorry for your hurt. I can definite...John,<BR/><BR/>I'm truly sorry for your hurt. I can definitely agree that once we get into the battle of the Bible verses, or folks start getting upset and offended, the conversation tends not to be very fruitful, and certainly doesn't reflect the love of Christ.<BR/><BR/>I'm backing away from discussion here, and letting it to God. We should hold each other in prayer, though. <BR/><BR/>God's peace to you, and to everyone here.Gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17018475588969974790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-26547373825289969142008-01-07T14:15:00.000-08:002008-01-07T14:15:00.000-08:00Mystical Seeker,All I can say to you is a quote fr...Mystical Seeker,<BR/><BR/>All I can say to you is a quote from Matthew 7:13-14:<BR/><BR/>13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and hthe way is hard that leads to life, and ithose who find it are few. <BR/><BR/>The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Mt 7:13-14). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.Lisa G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01188770954304845926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-82849392057791767822008-01-07T14:12:00.000-08:002008-01-07T14:12:00.000-08:00Flycandler,The Bible says Jesus is God. The Quran ...Flycandler,<BR/><BR/>The Bible says Jesus is God. The Quran says Jesus is not God. How can you rationally say they are not mutually exclusive? If one is correct, the other cannot be.<BR/><BR/>Your denomination may ordain women, but that does not mean those women are called to ministry. The Bible is clear that elders (of which the pastor is one) are only to be men, and God does not call someone to be something that goes against his Word.<BR/><BR/>In Christ,<BR/>LisaLisa G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01188770954304845926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-56279865248443122722008-01-07T13:49:00.000-08:002008-01-07T13:49:00.000-08:00I've attended Taize services that include some nov...I've attended Taize services that include some novel translations of the Psalms as part of their readings. Occasionally, instead of psalms, they have used writings from the Quran. And the writings that they've used on those occasions were quite beautiful. I for one am thankful for that experience.<BR/><BR/>People need to open their minds and their eyes a bit, to see the transcendent beauty that can be found in the profound expressions of faith in other religions. And by the same token, not everything found in the Bible is always that beautiful or wonderful--many of the psalms, for example, express a kind of hate filled revenge mentality towards one's enemies. There is good and bad to be found in many faiths. It can be a joy to discover passages of profound faith, regardless of the faith tradition from which they come.Mystical Seekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828225180668865911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-3037968012713433662008-01-07T13:29:00.000-08:002008-01-07T13:29:00.000-08:00So your pastor never, ever, ever quotes any book, ...So your pastor never, ever, ever quotes any book, play, movie, song or anything else in his sermons? That sounds incredibly dull and uninspiring.<BR/><BR/>Why is it so horribly wrong for a Christian minister to say "here's what we Christians believe, here's what the Jews think, and here's what the Muslims think about the same story in Genesis"? The Protestant Bible and the Quran aren't mutually exclusive--they deal with just about the same cast of characters. It's not the job of a Minister of the Word & Sacrament to shield his/her congregation from knowledge.<BR/><BR/>Oh, yeah, that's another difference between the PCA and the PC(USA): we ordain women who are called to the ministry.Flycandlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08599392875619723740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-29415931745266137142008-01-07T13:10:00.000-08:002008-01-07T13:10:00.000-08:00Yes, flycandler, that is my objection. Christianit...Yes, flycandler, that is my objection. Christianity and Islam are mutually exclusive, and to use the Quran to support the Bible, or vice versa, is irrational.<BR/><BR/>In Christ,<BR/>Lisa<BR/><BR/>PS My church, a Presbyterian church (PCA, not PC-USA) would never use a text in this way.Lisa G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01188770954304845926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-6712581861194563952008-01-07T11:18:00.000-08:002008-01-07T11:18:00.000-08:00Well, Lisa, I would assume it's the God of Abraham...Well, Lisa, I would assume it's the God of Abraham.<BR/><BR/>In the context of John's sermon on Abraham himself, of course it is useful to compare the Genesis account with that of another holy text--especially from another Abrahamic religion.<BR/><BR/>Is your objection to John's using the Quran to illustrate a point about our common spiritual ancestor that pastors should never mention any book other than the Bible in a sermon, lest the congregation become confused? That would disqualify most Presbyterian ministers in one fell swoop.Flycandlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08599392875619723740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-90658099100735951112008-01-07T11:08:00.000-08:002008-01-07T11:08:00.000-08:00John,Who is your god? It's difficult to determine ...John,<BR/><BR/>Who is your god? It's difficult to determine from your posts, because you quote from several different "sacred" texts.<BR/><BR/>In Christ,<BR/>LisaLisa G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01188770954304845926noreply@blogger.com