tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post6341101731436941973..comments2024-02-19T04:50:58.170-08:00Comments on Shuck and Jive: If PCUSA is a circus, what is the LayMAN?John Shuckhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00798753206614838161noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-17998605986327205242010-06-22T07:30:24.509-07:002010-06-22T07:30:24.509-07:00"I suppose I expect better from people who cl..."I suppose I expect better from people who claim to be the loving and tolerant ones."<br /><br />Sorry we're too "uppity" for ya, Joe. We'll make sure to bow and scrape for you and your buddy Parker next time. xxxoooAlanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16274395216929104919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-15049662654097089242010-06-21T21:23:42.494-07:002010-06-21T21:23:42.494-07:00No, but we have a Celtic festival here in the land...No, but we have a Celtic festival here in the land of the Scots-Irish. A claymore is only intimidating when it is worn my a redneck in a kilt. It happens.<br /><br />Claymore is more acceptable at renaisance fairPastor Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10510081361292855641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-46860769792426253692010-06-21T15:03:39.597-07:002010-06-21T15:03:39.597-07:00Stay classy, y'all....just like your pals at t...Stay classy, y'all....just like your pals at the Layman! B-bye.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07715835497674903001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-28278086909939759592010-06-21T14:27:40.361-07:002010-06-21T14:27:40.361-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07715835497674903001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-34800044649913503062010-06-21T14:16:25.298-07:002010-06-21T14:16:25.298-07:00Joe - you just don't seem to get it. One more...Joe - you just don't seem to get it. One more time (sigh) here's the cliff notes for you:<br /><br />Us: very little influence over others<br />Them: people of power in an influential "information clearinghouse" for the conservative Presbyterian Church.<br /><br />Us: poking at people of power because we disagree with them.<br />Them: recommending the intentional drowning of an individual. Recommending the complete loss of livelihood of many others because they disagree with them.<br /><br />Us: Understanding that those people will go on doing as they are doing, and that we will go on doing as we are doing, and allowing people to line up on whichever side they want (or lay down in the middle, for all we care).<br />Them: throwing a hissy fit like they are being tortured because someone else gets to play in the same really big sandbox with them, even though that sandbox is so big that they never have to actually see each other, much less share the same toys.<br /><br />Now, honestly, Joe. Enough with the passive aggressive crap. It's getting dreadfully dull.Snadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04055786911610974637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-41564589692460418092010-06-21T13:57:41.487-07:002010-06-21T13:57:41.487-07:00It amazes me how people can be so blind to the fac...It amazes me how people can be so blind to the fact that they are doing the exact same things that they play the martyr about people doing to them! But...people delude themselves all the time. Your straw man argument trying to smear me by linking me to the hateful speech of others that you disagree with is, at best, a childish ploy. Perhaps I shouldn't be suprised, but, nevertheless, I am. I suppose I expect better from people who claim to be the loving and tolerant ones.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07715835497674903001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-51886048610002208732010-06-21T13:03:49.676-07:002010-06-21T13:03:49.676-07:00Bob - you said Clearly you haven't been in New...Bob - you said <i>Clearly you haven't been in New Hope PA.</i><br /><br />No, but we have a Celtic festival here in the land of the Scots-Irish. A claymore is only intimidating when it is worn my a redneck in a kilt. It happens.Snadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04055786911610974637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-41707769251344256352010-06-21T11:16:34.498-07:002010-06-21T11:16:34.498-07:00I prefer Dalmore, Bob, but frankly, I'll drink...I prefer Dalmore, Bob, but frankly, I'll drink any single malt Scotch you offer me - but beware! The kilt and high heels scenario may start to look better to everyone.<br /><br />Well don't expect the kind that is so smokey that you can smell the smoke when you pour it. That's a bit much for me. <br /><br />As for the kilt and high heels I'll remember to keep my knees together.Pastor Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10510081361292855641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-6481138597406054412010-06-21T11:04:57.359-07:002010-06-21T11:04:57.359-07:00Snad
I'm thinking a claymore might be less in...Snad<br /><br />I'm thinking a claymore might be less intimidating than seeing a guy in a kilt AND high heels. LOL<br /><br />Clearly you haven't been in New Hope PA.Pastor Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10510081361292855641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-69098587255613995822010-06-21T09:46:44.504-07:002010-06-21T09:46:44.504-07:00Joe, if you're suggesting that someone being d...Joe, if you're suggesting that someone being drowned is a sign of love, then I guess that tells me exactly all I need to know about your comments. Thanks for making it so crystal clear. LOLAlanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16274395216929104919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-46729674715913296692010-06-21T09:38:32.060-07:002010-06-21T09:38:32.060-07:00But you get all upset when Carmen Fowler "lov...But you get all upset when Carmen Fowler "loves but doesn't like" someone...yet is ok for you all? Hmmm......me thinks there is a bit of two-facedness going on here.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07715835497674903001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-33956281571410575352010-06-21T09:31:39.770-07:002010-06-21T09:31:39.770-07:00@ John
See, you wouldn't be famous if it wasn...@ John<br /><br />See, you wouldn't be famous if it wasn't for the Layman!Pastor Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10510081361292855641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-66787661390944175062010-06-21T07:57:51.068-07:002010-06-21T07:57:51.068-07:00"Curiously there is info in the Layman that i...<i>"Curiously there is info in the Layman that is difficult to find elsewhere."</i><br /><br />Yessir. Including 44 pages about the very important topic, <a href="http://www.layman.org/Search.aspx?IndexCatalogue=Default&SearchQuery=shuck" rel="nofollow">John Shuck</a>John Shuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00798753206614838161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-50072806381860815202010-06-21T07:12:27.487-07:002010-06-21T07:12:27.487-07:00"Yeah. I've noticed a lot of good ol'..."Yeah. I've noticed a lot of good ol' Christian love in here, too ("the stuff that goes plop as elephants pass by") "<br /><br />Ah...now I see the problem. Joe, you've confused "love" with "like". It's possible to love someone you don't like very much, but pretending you like them isn't the way to do it.<br /><br />Read CS Lewis.Alanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16274395216929104919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-81006872745643008352010-06-21T07:11:02.738-07:002010-06-21T07:11:02.738-07:00"Curiously there is info in the Layman that i..."Curiously there is info in the Layman that is difficult to find elsewhere."<br /><br />Well, I'd say that if you want to get information out there, they're a good place to send press releases. :) <br /><br />When our church passed the first New-B overture for the upcoming GA last May for example, the Layman was the first place I sent a press release. Since then they've advertised it in at least 8 different stories, directly linking to both the full text of the overture and to our church's website in each one. <br /><br />You can't pay for that sort of advertising.Alanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16274395216929104919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-69695154674531580362010-06-21T07:05:10.458-07:002010-06-21T07:05:10.458-07:00"And I wondered if a kilt counted as being in..."And I wondered if a kilt counted as being in drag. Not in Scottish tradition of course. Besides I don't have any high heels."<br /><br />No, because a kilt is not a dress. The difference is in ... um... the foundation, shall we say. :)Alanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16274395216929104919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-60613611862677691102010-06-20T18:51:01.279-07:002010-06-20T18:51:01.279-07:00Jodie
Maybe I've been singing the old hymns t...Jodie<br /><br />Maybe I've been singing the old hymns too long or am just a pollyanna but when I say fight against I always mean in a non violent way. It can be as simple as saying, "No I won't." I can be the smile and the kind word over against the fist and the curse. And it can be saying clearly in the halls of power that they may think they are strong but one day they will die and what good will or the power they had on this earth do for them then? Whether one believes in the resurrection or not the reality of physical death ought to bring us all up short and ask why am I doing this?Pastor Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10510081361292855641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-52039618979151340472010-06-20T01:34:55.520-07:002010-06-20T01:34:55.520-07:00Bob,
"But our response to the love of Christ...Bob,<br /><br />"But our response to the love of Christ is or must be the battle against evil in this world."<br /><br />I don't think so. <br /><br />That hook, when swallowed, leads to the very evil you wish you were battling against. Jesus showed what it really takes to battle against evil. The way of the non-violent activist. <br /><br />I think there is a calling to not be a part of evil. To practice an ethic of honesty, non-violence, fairness, and compassion. It has the effect of overcoming evil yes, but to think of it as a battle puts it in the terms of this world, and the "battle" is lost even before it begins.<br /><br />The only effective response to the love of Christ is to love it forward.Jodiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15447125159108080797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-18680137174526378642010-06-19T23:13:46.152-07:002010-06-19T23:13:46.152-07:00Hey, thanks, Joe! I'm rather proud of that li...Hey, thanks, Joe! I'm rather proud of that line.Snadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04055786911610974637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-13965397499585237182010-06-19T20:52:11.542-07:002010-06-19T20:52:11.542-07:00Jodie
I'm a both and Christian. Christ calls...Jodie<br /><br />I'm a both and Christian. Christ calls us into the household of faith. This includes faith in Christ and salvation through Christ alone. But our response to the love of Christ is or must be the battle against evil in this world. Maybe I should say the battle against evil in the Church and the world. The Brief Statement of faith puts it this way:<br /><br />We trust in God the Holy Spirit,<br />everywhere the giver and renewer of life. The Spirit justifies us by grace through faith, sets us free to accept ourselves and to love God and neighbor, and binds us together with all believers<br />in the one body of Christ, the Church. The same Spirit who inspired the prophets and apostles<br />Christ through Scripture, engages us through the Word proclaimed,<br />claims us in the waters of baptism,<br />feeds us with the bread of life and the cup of salvation, and calls women and men to all ministries of the Church.<br /><br />In a broken and fearful world the Spirit gives us courage<br />to pray without ceasing, to witness among all peoples to Christ as Lord and Savior,to unmask idolatries in Church and culture, to hear the voices of peoples long silenced, and to work with others for justice, freedom, and peace.<br /><br />Thus the Church is called to Evangelism AND work for Social Justice. The Church cannot be the Church without both.Pastor Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10510081361292855641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-32084823318787859312010-06-19T16:59:26.313-07:002010-06-19T16:59:26.313-07:00Joe,
So you see Christianity as a save-your-ass r...Joe,<br /><br />So you see Christianity as a save-your-ass religion. <br /><br />Maybe. I guess that's why the Lord's prayer says "our Father who art in heaven,...take us to thy kingdom where thy will be done".Jodiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15447125159108080797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-38485531071845981182010-06-19T15:20:16.965-07:002010-06-19T15:20:16.965-07:00"Salvation" being a relative term to lib..."Salvation" being a relative term to liberals and conservatives. Conservatives meaning some sort of spiritual salvation for the next world and liberals meaning some sort of salvation politically, socially, or economically in the present world.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07715835497674903001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-38506018159618822802010-06-19T15:13:31.827-07:002010-06-19T15:13:31.827-07:00Yeah. I've noticed a lot of good ol' Chri...Yeah. I've noticed a lot of good ol' Christian love in here, too ("the stuff that goes plop as elephants pass by") With all this "love" going around, how come the world is still vastly unsaved? :)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07715835497674903001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-63716492596844414742010-06-19T13:32:10.917-07:002010-06-19T13:32:10.917-07:00Joe
I agree with some of what the Layman says but...Joe<br /><br />I agree with some of what the Layman says but wish they would say it in a more Christian way. <br /><br />An example: the Layman has criticized Ghost Ranch's programs in the past for moving away from Christianity to a kind of New Age religion. I think they are correct. But I don't think they will get heard in the denomination for the way they talk about the situation.<br /><br />For that matter when the Carmen Fowler used the passage about tying a millstone around someone's neck to refer to Dr. Achtimeyer's change of mind about homosexuality I wrote a blog saying that while I disagreed with Dr. Achtimeyers's change and Biblical conclusions I thought he was brave for saying what he said in public, knowing what would happen to him in Evangelical circles.<br /><br />There are loving ways to disagree with fellow Christians. The Layman, alas, does not use them.Pastor Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10510081361292855641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-59011095276269425342010-06-19T13:03:03.416-07:002010-06-19T13:03:03.416-07:00You all talk more about the Layman than people who...You all talk more about the Layman than people who agree with what it says.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07715835497674903001noreply@blogger.com