tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post7879124369575439315..comments2024-02-19T04:50:58.170-08:00Comments on Shuck and Jive: Presbyterian Gayman: Where Are They Now?John Shuckhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00798753206614838161noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-35281952105426454102007-02-01T08:01:00.000-08:002007-02-01T08:01:00.000-08:00I like the Gideon's translation I have - even ital...I like the Gideon's translation I have - even italicizes the english parts that have been added and are assumed so as to 'fill the passage in'. I like that - sometimes the additions of those words do change the message a bit (usually not a lot) - but I like that this interpretation has thought of us - the poor, misguided english readers with peanut size brains and the contextual understanding for texts of most oxen. I guess I like a good translation too - but to be honest - I checked out the NRSV - and it's translation and the Gideon's one are almost spot on.SocietyVshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10892870801259282254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-25903823762624744612007-01-31T14:37:00.000-08:002007-01-31T14:37:00.000-08:00Society,
I'm not against change in the church. Bu...Society,<br /><br />I'm not against change in the church. But I am against people who want everyone else the align with their own convictions, yet refuse to accept any possible negative consequences if it doesn't work. How can you ask someone to consider your position if you can't even be honest about how sincerely you hold them?<br /><br />Fundamentalism isn't the dominant theological paradigm in the PCUSA. Many people therein believe it to be a dangerous and backwards ideology. While I have spelled out my beliefs in excruciating detail there are probably a number of folks who didn't read my statement. I realize that if someone were to start asking questions of me on the floor of presbytery, they could orchestrate a move to paint me as a fundamentalist on the warpath. <br /><br />I could choose to give the moderating answers that are dissatisfying (but non-threatening) to "both sides" and avoid further trouble, but that would be bad faith. I think our denominational ties are tendentious enough to demand absolute honesty of candidates. More importantly, the faith that has been delivered is so amazingly liberating and salutary that it deserves to be trumpeted! Even if such frank disclosure sets me back in the PC(USA), it's the right (i.e., God-honoring) thing to do.<br /><br />The last thing a denomination with a trust-deficit needs is mendacious ministers who lack the courage of their convictions. And anyone who advocates for underhanded means of change rather than open, honest, frank discussion and discernment is leading us into trouble.<br /><br />PS - The Gideons only distribute the AV (Authorized Version, known in America as the KJV or King James Version). I figure if it was good enough for St. Paul, it oughta be good enough for me!<br /><br />PPS - I know about the Oremus browser, but I do not use the NRSV. I have too many disagreements with the ideological bent of the "translators" (much the same, I would imagine, that my counterparts have against the bent of the NIV translators). The ESV is an excellent inheritor of the KJV-RSV tradition. But for my money, you can't beat the Hebrew and the Greek, and when I study (rather than read devotionally) I try to go <i>ad fontes</i>.Chris Larimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01770607122746467750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-24952103649547585552007-01-31T13:53:00.000-08:002007-01-31T13:53:00.000-08:00John, I think I use the American Standard Version ...John, I think I use the American Standard Version - it's the version Gideon's uses in the bibles they hand out - and it's a great version I have found - I think it might even be the only 'inspired' one left - well, that and the children's cartoon bible.SocietyVshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10892870801259282254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-13096319411504219232007-01-31T13:49:00.000-08:002007-01-31T13:49:00.000-08:00tl"It will also result because the church needs re...tl"It will also result because the church needs reform and you know it and you know that to be honest and authentic you need to address it. Good for you." (Aw Schucks)<br /><br />I agree and I am only 31 years old - 32 in a few months (which is when I become a full-fledged genius I hear). Nothing wrong with wanting to challenge the status quo of things and asking questions of the church - whether that be theology, traition, interpretation, social issues, structure, or methodology. If we think we have these things perfected we need to re-examine our collective hearts.<br /><br />Chris I do like the comments and the dialogue but my question is does wanting change make someone a 'non-Christian'? Why does change always have to be seen as a 'bad thing'? I read the prophets and Jesus and see people that tried to change the current affairs of the people of God - and a lot of time they challenged traditional ideals of God for someone not to be put 'into the theological box'. I see nothing wrong with asking the churches to consider change if it reflects the heart of God.SocietyVshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10892870801259282254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-13468954610884628942007-01-31T13:42:00.000-08:002007-01-31T13:42:00.000-08:00Oremus Bible Browser includes the New Revised Stan...<a href="http://bible.oremus.org/">Oremus Bible Browser</a> includes the New Revised Standard Version that the Bible Gateway omits.John Shuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00798753206614838161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-79872924785472673212007-01-31T13:33:00.000-08:002007-01-31T13:33:00.000-08:00Chris uses the same place to quote from as I do - ...Chris uses the same place to quote from as I do - the Bible Gateway and it's choice of which translation to use. Cool to say the least - at least one other person in blogs does this (thusly I am not alone).SocietyVshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10892870801259282254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-15370398708966892182007-01-30T20:14:00.000-08:002007-01-30T20:14:00.000-08:00I suppose one could, if one didn't know the depth ...I suppose one could, if one didn't know the <a href="http://tinyurl.com/33gguc">depth of love</a> that I have for the people of the PC(USA). It was a PC(USA) pastor that gave me a copy of the <a href="http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/">WCF</a>, discipled me through some tough times, married me, and baptized my children. It was a member of the PC(USA) who helped me get back into college. It was the ministers, elders, and members of the PC(USA) who reminded me that God's gifts are for service. It was members of the PC(USA) who made it possible for me to get a graduate education. It is members of the PC(USA) who continue to challenge me and love me.<br /><br />I love them. It would be easier for a Reformed evangelical to go elsewhere - or at least less troubling. But <a href="http://tinyurl.com/2hmb3p">a charge to keep have I.</a> I don't choose <a href="http://tinyurl.com/2w6ver">how the call takes shape</a>. I simply choose whether or not I will joyfully obey.Chris Larimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01770607122746467750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30648257.post-19635540999488886192007-01-30T15:12:00.000-08:002007-01-30T15:12:00.000-08:00Help me out. I'm just a candidate, not a minister,...Help me out. I'm just a candidate, not a minister, so I don't have ecclesiastical politics figured out.<br /><br />Which of these is served by anonymous attacks or criticisms of the church: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/2dq3x4">peace</a>, <a href="http://tinyurl.com/23sh5p">unity</a>, or <a href="http://tinyurl.com/ywgevz">purity</a>?<br /><br />Calvin had a word for people who didn't have the courage of their convictions in the face of religious (papist) authorities: <a href="http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/hcc8.iv.xv.vii.html">Nicodemites</a>.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.swrb.com/newslett/actualNLs/relliars.htm">Dissimulating divines</a> are incapable of effecting a reformation of the church. Such clerical casuists do nothing but heap scorn on their cause.<br /><br />If you want to reform the church, you have to <a href="http://tinyurl.com/3b9wj6">love God and the truth more than money</a>. You have to be able to declare with Martin Luther:<br /><br />Let goods and kindred go, <br />this mortal life also;<br />The body they may kill: <br />God’s truth abideth still!<br /><br />Unless, of course, the ministry is simply a means of <a href="http://tinyurl.com/2w4p98">financial security</a>.<br /><br />Honestly, John, this has to be one of the most demonic strategies you've advocated yet.Chris Larimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01770607122746467750noreply@blogger.com