Shuck and Jive

Tuesday, October 20, 2009

They Will Know We Are Christians By Our Hate

Never missing an opportunity to cash in on prejudice, the Vatican has announced to disaffected Anglicans:

"Hey we are narrow-minded and bigoted just like you. Come join us!"

Check it

The Vatican announced Tuesday it was making it easier for Anglicans to convert to Roman Catholicism -- a surprise move designed to entice traditionalists opposed to women priests, openly gay clergy and the blessing of same-sex unions....

Until now, Anglicans had been allowed to join the church primarily on an individual basis. With the new provision, groups of Anglicans from around the world will be able to join new parishes headed by former Anglican prelates, who will provide spiritual guidance to Anglicans who wish to be Catholic.
A surprise move?! It is what is to be expected from institutions that have enthroned ignorance, fear, and bigotry as spiritual virtues.


  1. Surprise move? No. Late getting on the band wagon? Yes. Even the PCUSA is making overtures to the Anglican denomination. I remember voting on it earlier this year at our Presbytery meeting. That was the meeting were we voted on everything, but 6.016b. A note to all those in Middle Tennessee Presbytery.

  2. I feel bad for my progressive Catholic friends, but I am laughing over B16's "poaching" of our malcontents. Why he thinks that a group which has already demonstrated that it has a problem with authority will behave once they are under his wing, I cannot say. But I'm looking forward to watching the fall-out.

    Oh, and I'm also enjoying the schadenfreude I feel over watching Rowan Williams get some of his own back. I can't wait to see what happens when those "Anglican Catholics" demand that the Church of England give them their buildings, rectories, etc. The calls are already going out. I suspect that the Queen will NOT be amused... ;-)

    This is what happens when you refuse to lead and let the reactionaries drive the bus.


  3. Surprised? Nah, we've seen this in our very own denomination.

    In this case, the gays are so evil and bad that the RC is attempting to poach anti-gay Anglicans by caving on married priests. In the PCUSA case, the gays are so evil and bad that EPC is attempting to poach anti-gay PCUSAers by saying that they'll cave on women's ordination.

    It's all about the gays.

    (Mary, the PCUSA overtures to Anglicans is about ecumenism, not about poaching congregants. As a member of a PCUSA church that shares a building and many ministries with an Episcopal church, I am very familiar with these overtures and they're nothing like what's being described here. They're similar but not as extensive as the agreements we made with the other Reformed denominations a few years back.)

  4. Wow. Really? I learned the formula "love the sinner but hate the sin" in elementary school. Surely you've heard of it. Do you really think that Catholic doctrine on this point constitutes "hate"?

  5. Oh, it's just doctrine, it doesn't mean anything.

    Is anyone else getting as tired of that excuse, as I am? (Particularly given that the people who say it almost never actually believe it.)

    When one can provide absolutely no practical reason for discrimination against LGBT people, and when one can provide absolutely no Scripturally sound reason for discrimination against LGBT people, then what's left?

    I believe people act because they have some reason to act, either wisely or foolishly, they have some motivation. Since the motivation for excluding LGBT people from the ministry cannot be secular (practical) or sacred (Scriptural), then one must try to discern what the motivation is for why people would act in a way that is contrary to what even they admit are their own values. That is, why would someone act against Scripture, when they claim to respect Scripture?

    I suppose there are several possible reasons, and hate is pretty high on the list. I suppose ignorance could be another: people who claim to respect Scripture but who do not actually understand Scripture. Fear could be another, irrational fear of LGBT people, for example, or homophobia.

    So consider the specifics of this case. Here we have the RC which has held their ground against married priests for centuries. I believe they have done so because they consider that a Scriptural position. I think you would have a hard time disputing that they think that is a Scriptural doctrine, and one they're quite firm about.

    If we assume they actually think that chastity is important, and they're willing to violate that in order to poach anti-gay married anglicans, then what is their real motivation? It cannot be Scriptural, since they've claimed for centuries that priests cannot be married. A doctrine they're willing to throw out in order to appeal to anti-gay anglicans. So if their motivation isn't Scriptural for them, what is it?

    I think there are plenty of options, hate, fear, ignorance, but none of them is very flattering.

  6. Wonder no more why more and more of us identify ourselves as non believers.

  7. I learned the formula "love the sinner but hate the sin" in elementary school.

    Ah yes....that tired, old saw that allows "Christians" to say the word 'hate' and still feel clean...

  8. **This is what happens when you refuse to lead and let the reactionaries drive the bus.**

    Nicely put.

  9. "Do you really think that Catholic doctrine on this point constitutes "hate"?"

    It definitely constitutes an exclusionary practice that Jesus of Nazareth did not instruct us to engage in.
    Can you not see how it can be construed as "hate"?

    Does Jesus have any say in Catholic doctrine yet?

  10. Yeppers, Dr. M
    Hence the title...
    "They Will Know We Are Christians By Our Hate"

    One of the things Jesus was most animate about was the example set in public by His followers.
    Preaching through action is an art. Setting examples of action for those we see watching is important. Setting examples for those who are watching when we don't know they're watching is more important.

    The Right Wing of the Christian body is guilty as charged of failing to follow the guidelines for setting public example.
    Quite simply, many non-believers are a perfect example of their failure.
    Who wants to follow a religion who says I love you in one breath and I hate you in another?

    Men like these have perverted every religion on this earth. Christianity is no exception.