Shuck and Jive

Monday, September 20, 2010

Time to Get Game On

The lulus at the LayMAN have begun their nutterism regarding the ordination equality amendment.

They have decided this time around to blame their own homophobia on Phyllis Tickle.

I do think it is a rather interesting strategy.

Carmen "The Millstone" Fowler made the connection in her latest post. According to her, Phyllis Tickle has mesmerized denominational leadership and now all hell is breaking loose.

Some other LayMAN dude named Stephen Brown is spouting similar silliness. According to him, if we let the gays in the Nazis will attack Clint Eastwood or something like that.

Then of course, the Holy One of Lenoir, Parker Williamson, recently compared (again) ordination equality with molestation of children. You can always count on Parker to take the high road especially after taking shots at the new Vice-Moderator in the on-going saga of Tickle-Gate.


My presbytery (Holston) votes on 10-A on Tuesday, December 7th.

My presbytery who refuses to discipline me even though I beg for it is made up of very nice people. I like them a lot even though they consistently vote against equality by a three to one margin. Who knows, maybe this time I will win them over with my charm.

Failing that, perhaps the solidly Reformed theological content of the proposed text itself will win the day:
“Standards for ordained service reflect the church’s desire to submit joyfully to the Lordship of Jesus Christ in all aspects of life (G-1.0000). The governing body responsible for ordination and/or installation (G.14.0240; G-14.0450) shall examine each candidate’s calling, gifts, preparation, and suitability for the responsibilities of office. The examination shall include, but not be limited to, a determination of the candidate’s ability and commitment to fulfill all requirements as expressed in the constitutional questions for ordination and installation (W-4.4003). Governing bodies shall be guided by Scripture and the confessions in applying standards to individual candidates.”
It has a nice, Presbyterian ring to it. It is time to talk it up and make the change.


  1. Is Carmen "The Millstone" Fowler a Presbyterian?

    I only ask because, in addition to her anti-Presbyterian theology, she also seems unaware of our polity. In particular, the fact that amendments to the BoO come in the form of overtures from individual sessions, not from the denominational leadership.

    The Stephen Brown Nazi article is sad except for this, "More than one elder and pastor in the PCUSA have expressed to me “why should we get involved in these issues. They don’t affect us locally in how we carry out the ministries of the church.”"

    I'm heartened to hear that more than one elder and pastor (of those who would talk to someone like this guy) in the PCUSA are actually still presbyterian enough to understand our polity. Their question is very Presbyterian.

  2. Admit it, you want to be spanked by your Presbytery.

  3. I'm sorry. You lost me at "Phyllis Tickle."

    { giggles }

  4. Kudos Alan. Exactly. Real Presbyterians are not busybodies.

    BTW @Dr. MVM and @SouthernBeale

    Rather than being spanked by my presbytery I would prefer being tickled.

    That is my final word on the matter.

  5. Actually amendments can come form a variety of sources. The OGA has proposed amendments. The FOG committee proposed an amendment to replace the whole FOG. Committees of presbyteries and synods can propose amendments tothier governing bodies. Maybe the FOG doesn't say it but I have seen all of these happen.

  6. It would be nice if Carmen could think in a straight line for a change.

    I mean, she starts off with a nice, value free description of Phillis Tickle's message at the GA, then she suddenly goes off on a complete non sequitur in the paragraph that starts with "If the Scriptures are just myth ... This is nihilism."

    And her readers are stupid enough to go along with her, like sheep for the slaughter.

    Is it self serving Fundamentalist propaganda masquerading as logical argument, or does she just lack the horse's sense of Balaam's ass?

    I don't know which is worse.

  7. "Actually amendments can come form a variety of sources. "

    They can. This one didn't, as you well know, and as The Millstone, someone who is pretending to be a leader in the church, should certainly know as well.

    For myself, I can confirm that I wrote one of the amendments (though not the one who ultimately got passed), and I've never even heard of Phyllis Tickle.

  8. So, the Millstone  is unwilling to abandon her calling as a part of Christ’s Church. Darn!  We  Presbyterians do have an "exalted" sense of call. I have always wondered how much of it is genuine or how much is self-delusion. So go ahead  Carmen,  climb up on your cross over Phyllis Tickle and gay ordination. I don't care.

    "the Holy One of Lenoir!  Nice touch John.

  9. "Presbyterians do have an "exalted" sense of call. I have always wondered how much of it is genuine or how much is self-delusion."

    I think the underlying psychology required for being a busybody, fusspot, tattletale, and scold is believing that other people must -- not just may, or should, but must -- care about the opinions of BFTSs like themselves. So she's hardly alone in that self-delusion.

    (Not much different than the folks who seem to think the rest of us should care if they leave the denomination. I believe the appropriate response to that level of puffed up self-importance is, "Buh Bye now.")

    Heck, lately I've even seen some so-called Presbyterians who are so full of themselves that they actually think they don't interpret the Bible. So, either a few pages of dead tree and some ink can be turned into a McGuyver-esque telephone to God, or they're delusional on the level of David Koresh, but without the bad hair and glasses. (I'd love to get these folks in a room with some of the KJV-only crowd and let them duke it out nutjob-to-nutjob.)

  10. Oh, Alan - always a day brightener! Thanks for the chuckles!

  11. I try. :)

    I think that most of the time, the proper response to these clowns is laughter.