Shuck and Jive

Opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent the views of the congregation I joyfully serve. But my congregation loves me!

Wednesday, February 20, 2008

Is It Time for a Tammy Wynette Song?

I have never advocated this before, but I think the 2008 General Assembly should consider this overture:

The PCUSA is no longer a denomination. Each congregation will vote whether it wishes to be a part of a denomination without the 1993 AI and G-6.0106b or one that wishes to be in a denomination that wants this ruling. Each congregation will have until 2010 to decide. The 2010 GA will officiate at the D-I-V-O-R-C-E. Following the conclusion of the 2010 GA there will be two separate PCUSA denominations.


  1. I dread schism, John. Even if it is better for the larger church, I still dread it in the meantime.

    I'm not even sure a new denomination is the answer. It seems the Whineskins already have the process in motion to move their ilk to the EPC (which is OPC for cowards). I will have so much fun when they have a similar fight over scruples and essentials when it comes to ordaining women. I will stand outside their GA waving a big sign that says "WE TOLD YOU SO." The EPC is where both the UPCUSA and PCUS were in the 40s. If they want to turn the clock back 60 years, good luck with that.

    I feel for the ol' "silent center", the people who don't really give a damn about Authoritative Interpretations and PJC rulings but just want to be pastored to in an increasingly uncertain world. They get manipulated and hornswoggled by "leaders" with a political axe to grind. It's what happened at my old church, and by the time that moderate-to-progressive Elders like my dad realized what was going on, it was too late.

    This is going to be so ugly.

  2. Interesting proposal: My visceral reaction is that divorce like this would not only occur at the denominational level, it would occur within congregations.

    I think that most congregations, with very few exceptions on either extreme, are like-minded on this issue.

  3. " I will have so much fun when they have a similar fight over scruples and essentials when it comes to ordaining women. I will stand outside their GA waving a big sign that says "WE TOLD YOU SO."

    Personally my favorite part about all this is that these fools (and I'm sorry, but let's be clear, that's what they are) believe they're actually somehow going to get over homosexual ordination by moving to the EPC. Are any of these folks actually stupid or naive enough to believe, I mean seriously honestly believe, there aren't LGBT folks who have already been ordained in the EPC, the OPC, and every other denomination on the planet?

    So yes, when they split apart again in a few years over ordaining women (isn't the EPC policy on that already essentially a policy of scruples?) I'll join you waving that sign (I even have an "I told you so!" dance we can do). And then a few years after that, when they start fighting about LGBT ordination AGAIN, we can return with the same sign.

  4. I know, Fly, ChurchGeek, and Alan. There is no "Final Solution."

    Just because the silent center doesn't care that doesn't make them virtuous.

    There is a tendency to think that advocates for say lgbt causes only do that. In terms of time and energy, most of mine is spent on all kinds of other things, including pastoring to the silent center.

    Every now and then, this issue heats up.

    There is a solution. The silent center needs to embrace it. That solution is to get rid of our discriminatory policies and let ordaining bodies ordain.

    That is the only solution that will make for peace. When that happens, then the fundies who can't handle it, will leave, and the rest will grudgingly accept.

    Progressives and the silent center have got to know the story now. It is remove the discriminatory policies and don't flinch.