Shuck and Jive

Thursday, February 28, 2008

Preview of Our Forthcoming Evolution Debate

I thought I would give you a little preview of the evolution/creation debate forthcoming between a colleague and myself. Should be great fun.

Click here
and scroll down to watch "Just a monkey, folks. Just a monkey."


  1. Ah, John, why are you doing this, just to mock, and make a fool of these dear Christian people? (That's pretty much how it all comes across to me.)

    It's easy to see just from reading these remarks that they will not be able to stand against you. There's not going to be a contest, and you know it.


    What is your purpose?

  2. The debate aside, Elmer Gantry is a good film. I liked it, at least, when we watched in film class at the GTU...

  3. Oh, Grace, please. These "Dear Christian people" are ministers who pastor churches that are larger than mine. They have radio programs and schools. They challenged me to a public debate simply because we held an evolution Sunday to show that evolution is compatible with Christianity.

    My purpose? I am providing a voice for those who do not accept the version of faith that is loud and obnoxious in our area.

    People are bullied into thinking that they either have to choose atheism or six-day creationism. You don't know that until you have lived here.

    People are hungry for other ways to express spirituality and our church is an oasis in this area. It has been described as such.

    We exist. We will hold our heads high. Was this post a little cheeky? Absolutely.

    If it had been made at the expense of powerless dear Christian people, you would be right. It is not. It is at the expense of people (preachers) who have a great deal of power and are not afraid to wield at any who dares to challenge their authority.

    Now, as for you. You are welcome to comment here. But what is your purpose?

  4. You know what Grace, a growing number of people are sick and tired of these religious bigots who willing impose self-ignorance upon themselves sticking their ignorant doctrinal hands into our children's local school boards and educational curriculums.

    Why don't you take the time to watch a video recently aired on PBS by NOVA called "Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial" to find out just how immoral and unChrist-like these fundamentalist Christians really are.

    It is about time that intelligent Christians stand up and defend the name of Christ and Christianity from these ignorant fools.

    You go John!

  5. Well, ok, Rob and John,

    This isn't an issue where I feel so strongly. But, for me personally, I think Christians need to watch our spirit.

    If people looking on from the outside don't see the love of Christ in us, and a respect for people even apart from strong differences, then I think this all does more damage spiritually, and to the witness of the church than any difference of opinion around Genesis.

    For me, at it's center, there are not different versions of the Christian faith. All Christians are in agreement concerning the gospel.

    But, I have plenty of friends who come down in various ways relating to the interpretation of Genesis. I would not want this to all stand in the way of fellowship, and in loving each other.

    And, even through our strong differences I feel as if I need to communicate in a sensitive and respectful way, to be kind.

    Of course, we all fall miserably short in this, and need God's grace and mercy all the time. I'm preaching to myself here too, believe me.

    So, maybe I was wrong to say anything, John. But, these were all the first thoughts that came to my mind. I don't think I would attend this debate.

    This man is no doubt out to show that you are basically an agent of the devil. And, it looks like you are planning to make a fool of him.

    Both sides are probably going to walk away from this more divided than ever.

    God have mercy. I won't comment again.


  6. Grace,

    This conversation is worth pursuing. If the group that is going to sponsor this debate does so it will be because this is a huge issue. This is the reason we have Evolution Sunday and why over 11,000 clergy signed on to supporting evolution being taught in school, etc.

    In this particular area of the country, you are either a Christian or a sinner. You are a fundamentalist or an atheist. Or at least that is the common perception.

    My point is going to be that you can be a person of faith, a Christian, and accept the science of evolution. Maybe that doesn't sound that radical, but obviously, it is.

    I have no intentions of making my opponent look foolish. If anyone will look foolish, it will probably be me. He has done this before.

    The only reason I think it would be good for me to do this (assuming that the format, the place, and the conditions are acceptable) is to communicate that evolution is accepted science and that people of faith can accept it.

    Again, that is the intention of the clergy letter project.

    As the both of us are posturing for this (he on his radio show) and me through my blog, we are having fun, each in our own warped way.

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  9. Grace,

    You are trying to play some sanctimonious guilt trip on John, and then say “this isn’t an issue … I feel so strongly” about. Well, Grace, then you don’t have much love of truth in you do you? For each and every time a fool is allowed to suppress the truth, any truth, scientific, philosophical, or religious, they are not honoring God, Christ, or their fellows. Trying watching the video above and you will see just how far some will go in persecuting the fellow Christians who DO recognize the fact and truth of organic evolution.

    Let’s get real Grace; I suggest Grace, you take a good long look at the wise advice of scripture on the folly of fools.

    Arg, three times a charm?

  10. I see Evolution Sunday and the uproar as a great teaching moment, maybe even evangelical (ie spreading good news) that there can exist a faith reconciled with science. Just to allow people that category in their head that some Christians scan support the sciences is a plus.