Shuck and Jive

Tuesday, October 14, 2008

My Debate Wish

The final debate is tomorrow night. I am hopeful but doubtful that there will be anything of substance to it. Just the same old rhetoric:

"'That one' wants to raise your taxes."

But what if they decided to really have a debate about our future--the important stuff?

It seems the most important issue has to do with how the leader of the United States will work with other world leaders and our nation's leaders to move us toward wise use of our planet's resources.

We just spent 700 billion of our children's money on this last financial crisis. Since we like to spend their money, what if we spent another big chunk on green technology and green energy? We create thousands of jobs for people for R & D and infrastructure to move us to wind, solar, and other forms of energy. We redesign the way we build our homes, use transportation, and grow our food.

To me, those are the big issues. It will take vision and sacrifice and a willingness to be creative.

Those issues would be interesting to hear in a debate.


  1. How about we not spend a dime of tax-dollar money, and let the market handle itself? If you think that we have free-market capitalism now, you are full of
    sh!t. did we ever get to the point where people think that it is morally acceptable to forcefully take money from people and give it to others? It is stealing to take my hard-earned money and spend it on your pet projects.

    Competition is a beautiful thing when Government stays the hell out of it. That is the only way we will survive into the future.

    -"It is not the strongest of species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is most adaptable to change." -Charles Darwin

  2. Oh, F^&ck, Rachel! I've lost my patience with you. The free market system you advocate will get us nothing other than the a faster ride in the handbasket we're already in. Give it up.

  3. Erm... Darwin was talking about biology.

    Economics is different.

    It's not even a good analogy. (If you're in doubt about that, do a google search on social darwinism and see how well those ideas are regarded.)

    By the way, name one government in the history of history that has not imposed taxes on it's population.

    Simplistic notions aren't going to get us out of this.

    But hey, Rachel, if you're willing to let some people who aren't "adaptable" starve to death in poverty, while their kids go homeless, more power to you. But I'm bettering that when the bank comes for your house you won't be as glib.

    As for me, either I put up some money in taxes for a bailout so that my neighbor's house doesn't go into foreclosure, or I don't. If I do, I spread the risk and the cost around to everyone. Yup that sucks. But if I don't, when the bank does foreclose on it, and then sell it for pennies on the dollar, then I get to watch my home value plummet (because, as you may not be aware, home assessments are based on the selling price of similar homes in the neighborhood.) So, when I go to sell my house in a year or so, I'll end up loosing much more money all by myself, and my neighbors will be out on the street, but hey, at least the market took care of it. Yup, that sucks worse.

    Anyone who doesn't think that *every* solution to this problem sucks, but some suck somewhat less, is full of sh*t.

    Anyway, back to the actual topic, instead of another Ron Paul commercial...

    Yeah, I'd love to see them discuss the issues with some honesty. But I'll bet dollars to donuts all we're going to hear is stupid flag pin issues tomorrow night from the losing team.

  4. Oh, Lord, not this dead horse again.

    Rachel, free market fundamentalism gave us the Great Depression (not to mention the Panics that preceded it). Unfettered free market capitalism has a nasty tendency to destroy itself. That's why government has a place to enforce reasonable regulation so that the needs of the people (who are the government in a democratic republic) are represented, since they are not in a pure capitalist system.

    "Stealing to take your hard-earned money and spend it on your pet projects"? Excusez-moi? How did you make your money? Did you rely on roads built by the government? If you're in the American South (or anywhere rural for that matter), did you use electricity from power lines built by the government when the private utilities said that the "free market" dictated that the hillbillies didn't want electricity? Were there any contracts involved? If so, wasn't it nice to have a taxpayer-funded court system to enforce them? Isn't it nice to have police and fire protection for yourself, your family and your property? Isn't it nice to have a military to protect you from foreign invasion?

    If the answer to any of these questions is "yes", then don't bitch to me about "spending on pet projects". You are benefiting just as much as everyone else.

  5. McCain on FOX: "Lose the debate - does not lose the election!" Watch this video here:

  6. Hi Flycandler, I don't mind my taxdollars being spent on roads, education, etc. But the amount of Income Tax spent on these things is very low in comparison to the war budget (35-45%).

    I am advocating doing away with our monetary system and creating a more just system based on true free market principles.

  7. "I am advocating doing away with our monetary system and creating a more just system based on true free market principles."

    Yeah. That's going to happen.

    I'm burning the money in my wallet right now. You'll pay me back if that doesn't work out, right Rachel?

  8. Fine, Rachel, then start working within the framework the Founders set up for you. As the late, great Molly Ivins pointed out, as an American living today, you have more political power in your little finger than 99% of the people who have ever lived on planet Earth.

    Just understand that "free market capitalism" sounds lovely, but it leads to situations like the one we face now, that we faced 75 years ago, that we faced 100 years ago, that we faced 135 years ago, that we faced 150 years ago, that we faced 190 years ago, and that we faced 210 years ago.

    Also understand that one of the contributing factors to the Great Depression was the dogmatic attachment to the gold standard, and that reimplementing it now would cause massive deflation.

    As far as cutting back on the defense budget, I'm right there with ya. But it's still money that needs to be spent elsewhere.

  9. Flycandler,

    This article says the opposite of what you have been saying about Hoover. Peter Schiff says that Hoover basically did the same thing that Bush is doing now with the economy, except on a grander scale and that Obama is going to repeat Roosevelt and drag out the depression.

    Here is the article.

    Were headed for a worse Great Depression than our grandfathers knew, and you can't blame this on true free-market capitalism. In my opinion the lessons of history are lost on many. That is why history has a tendency of repeating itself.