Shuck and Jive

Tuesday, February 03, 2009

Is the LayMAN Getting Nervous?

The LayMAN posted this article, Opponents of ordination standards get key win; more likely to follow.

Lamenting over Western North Carolina's approval of the new B (so sweet), the LayMAN is worried the tide may be turning. Check this:

Overall, the tally on the proposed revision of G-6.0106b now stands at 11 presbyteries voting to change it and 22 voting to keep it on the books as it is now. But the margins of support for the ordination requirement have trailed off in this referendum. If it continues that way among presbyteries that had close votes in 2001, the requirement could be defeated.

In 2001-02, 50 presbyteries that opposed repealing G-6.0106b had margins as close as Western North Carolina’s this year. That includes 12 with margins of 10 or fewer votes and 15 with margins of 11-30 votes. If all 50 voted to changing G-6.0106b, the opponents of the “fidelity/chastity” requirement would win by a vote of 96-77.
Cool! If Western North Carolina (home of the LayMAN's former Pontiff, Parker Williamson) can vote for inclusion, so can the rest of the PC(USA)!

The LayMAN spoke this truth as well:

And even if the proponents of ordaining gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people come up short this year, they will declare that “close” is sufficient grounds to ask the General Assembly to approve another referendum.
Right again, O LayMAN. Justice never sleeps. We will keep knocking on that door. Little by little, one heart and mind at a time, the church will finally get it.


  1. Great post John! Clearly there is a shift happening within the church right now. If even Parker Williamson's home presbytery votes for LGBT equality then perhaps it's a sign that his polarizing antics are starting to backfire with people.

    The most incredible part of the current debate for me is that quite literally, we have fundamentalists within the church arguing that ordination language that requires pastors to be obedient to Jesus, the Scriptures, and the Confessions -- is too pro gay. It's really quite an acknowledgment on their part I think.

    Thanks for all your good work brother.

    Toby Rogers

  2. Could the folks at the Layman be Hegelians who are beginning to see and read the writing on the wall? That which is true will survive. As soon as the question was asked about the appropriateness of ordaining LGBTQs, the tide had begun to change. The historic trajectory of becoming a more open hearted, open minded and inclusive church continues. As the ship of the Church sails out with the tide, the folks at the Layman are going to be left high and dry on the shore with no fish or bread to feed them.

  3. I was gonna say something, but I'll just roll with Mr. Harris above 'cause it sounded so perfect.


  4. "quite literally, we have fundamentalists within the church arguing that ordination language that requires pastors to be obedient to Jesus, the Scriptures, and the Confessions -- is too pro gay."

    Yup. They have become so blinded by their ideology that they no longer have any idea what they are saying.

    They have wandered clean off the reservation.

  5. Great post. Thanks for keeping us informed about the progress we are making in the Presbyteries. Believe it or not, in Utica Presbytery there wasno debate at all!

  6. Prepare for a big battle with Greater Atlanta. I'm not that optimistic, but with a large conservabot church having recently fled to the EPC (where they can now have another fight, using the same language, over the ordination of women), the tally may be closer.

    If Greater Atlanta goes, I think the Layman will essplode.

  7. Thanks all!

    Good ol' Utica. I miss my colleagues but not the snow.